A Conversation Between Friends

Here’s another Patricia Mann confession: Sometimes I can’t help but eavesdrop on people’s conversations. Do you ever do that too? Well, here’s your chance! I met author Shelly Hickman online a while back and we’ve become dear friends. We chat regularly and I always find her take on things fascinating, funny, and enlightening. So I thought I’d share a little of one of our talks with you. Enjoy!

1. Patricia: What’s the one food you would eat every day if you didn’t have to worry about calories or health at all?

Shelly: There are several. Bread pudding, to name one.

Patricia: Bread pudding, yum! We’ll have to have some together sometime.

2. Patricia: One of the many things you and I have in common is that we’ve both been married a long time. What qualities do you and your husband share? What makes the two of you different? Do you think opposites attract or similarity works better for the long-term?

Shelly: We’re both kind of frugal when it comes to spending, me more so than him. We’re savers and we try to plan things out. We also both try really hard to balance spoiling our kids without making them too dependent on us for every little thing, knowing it’s important that they work for things so they don’t end up thinking everything will be handed to them in life.

However, we will often perceive the same situation completely opposite. He will relay a story to someone, it could be about anything, and the way he saw it will be the total opposite of how I saw it. It’s really weird, but maybe it just comes down to the difference between men and women.

In general, I think it’s better to have opposite personality types, but important to be similar in your values and beliefs.

Patricia: As usual, I completely agree with you. My husband and I have very different personalities yet our core beliefs are completely aligned. The seeing a story the opposite way thing… I think it happens daily in our home!

3. Patricia: What do you love most about being a mom?

I love it when my kids feel like they can confide in me, even it’s just to blow off some steam or vent. For instance, my daughter is in middle school and she’s had a lot of drama with a couple of her friends this year. She doesn’t hesitate to tell me what’s going on, and if she’s not home, she’ll text me to let me know she’s mad or upset about something that’s happened. She’s still young now, but I hope that continues as she gets older.

Patricia: I’m sure it’ll continue because you’re just that kind of person who’s so easy to talk to. I have boys, so they don’t always open up as much as I’d like, but when they do, it makes me so happy.

4. Patricia: What is the hardest thing about being a mom for you?

Shelly: Seeing your child in pain and knowing there’s nothing you can do about it. My oldest daughter was diagnosed with lymphoma when she was four, which eventually relapsed into leukemia when she was six. It’s the worst feeling in the world to watch your child suffer and know that you’re absolutely powerless to change it.

Patricia: I can’t begin to imagine what you went/go through and I’ve learned so much from you because of what you’re shared with me so openly. Couldn’t agree more that there is nothing worse than seeing your child in pain.

5. Patricia: We’re both teachers, but my students are college age while yours are middle schoolers, which to me, means you must have the patience of a saint. How do you stay calm when the kids are trying their best to drive you crazy?

Shelly: Let me tell ya, I don’t have the patience of a saint! In fact, it’s something I struggle with all the time. Most days I’m able to stay relatively calm because I know if I lose my temper and get angry, I’m only making myself feel worse, not better. Those students who try to get under my skin ultimately go about their business without a care in the world while I’m left with a prescription for high blood pressure, or Xanax. I have my moments, though, and it’s usually when a student is being unkind.

Patricia: Yup, same here, lack of kindness is my biggest button. Press it at your own risk!

6: Patricia: Your first book, Believe, is a beautiful story about a woman who is struggling with finding hope again after losing a daughter. Despite that heartbreaking backdrop, the book is uplifting and inspiring, and even includes a little romance. Was it difficult to write Believe, given your own experience losing a child? What was the experience of writing it like for you?

Shelly: Believe was a book I took out and put away over the course of several years. I started writing it after my daughter had beaten her lymphoma, or so I thought, and was finished with cancer treatments. Of course, I was in this place where I was extremely grateful to have experienced the positive outcome we did, and looking back, the manuscript was pretty syrupy.

When Sydney relapsed, I delved into all this reading material about the power of intention, positive thought, prayer, and anything else I could get my hands on. It was my lifeline, and I truly believed, despite how bad things looked for her, she would come out of it. When that didn’t happen, I felt duped, like I got the shaft.

I went back to Believe and basically gutted it, and writing it was a huge part of my healing more than anything else. I’ve had readers say in reviews that they didn’t get the point of the story, that the ending didn’t answer any questions. Others who have experienced the loss of a child have told me it touched them. I’ll admit it’s not meant to answer questions about why children suffer such things, but there is an intended idea at the end, which some readers pick up on and others don’t, and that’s okay.

Patricia: I can see how writing Believe would be healing. I can also see how it needed to be a different story when things didn’t turn out the way you prayed for them to for so long. I have to disagree with the criticisms you mentioned. I took so many lessons from the book and the intended idea at the end is quite powerful.

7. Patricia: One of the things I loved most about your second book, Somewhere Between Black and White, is the message that we need to love and accept one another despite our flaws and mistakes. There are subtle yet profound suggestions for living a more compassionate and connected life. I know these are themes you think and read a lot about. What strategies, if any, have you discovered that work for you to help put these elusive principles into practice?

Shelly: First, let me say how much it thrills me that you took away those ideas from the story. I have enjoyed reading about such themes for some time. I remember when you started reading Somewhere, you wondered if my personality was more like Sam’s, and then I quickly admitted I was more like Sophie. Sam is who I strive to be on a daily basis and fail miserably!

But two of the best mindsets that work for me are these:

1. Try to be more tolerant and understanding of people’s shortcomings, if for no other reason than it’s what I would like others to do for me.
2. Remind myself that when I let someone else’s actions have a negative effect on me, like being angry with them or getting all judgey on them, ultimately I wind up feeling like crap about it. If I can manage to maintain my calm, and really have it, not just fake it, I’m doing myself a favor.

Patricia: Excellent strategies. Tough to put into practice sometimes, but definitely the way to go. Knowing that you’re always working on being this way makes me feel so accepted and comfortable in our friendship.

8. Patricia: You’re writing a third book and based on what I know about it so far, it has very contemporary themes and a lot of exciting storylines. The main character’s life seems very different from the protagonists in your previous books, which is so intriguing. I honestly can’t wait to read it. Can you give us a little teaser about this woman and what her journey might be?

Shelly: I’ve noticed for years that in today’s media we often see ordinary looking men paired with very attractive women. Just to cite a few examples: According to Jim, Everybody Loves Raymond, Modern Family . . . I could go on and on. It just made me wonder why we rarely see average looking women with hunky guys.

I decided to start a story about a woman who’s a plain Jane, and has always been considered a “nice” person. She reconnects with someone from high school who remembers her compassion. By the way, he’s a real hottie now, and he begins to pursue her because of the impression she’d made on him so many years ago.

Patricia: What a great idea! You’re so right about how we rarely see that in the media. I really look forward to discovering where you go with that theme. By the way, the “nice” part of the main character sounds like it might be based on you, but not the “plain Jane” part – I’ve met you in person and you’re adorable! (Readers, see picture above for confirmation.)

9. Patricia: What’s it like living in Las Vegas? You seem so responsible and centered, I can’t picture you blowing hard earned cash at a craps table or dancing the night away in a cheesy 80s music club (things I like to do when I’m there). So what do you do for fun in Vegas?

Shelly: Actually, dancing in a cheesy 80s club sounds pretty fun. Where was that? LOL. You’re right. Growing up here, I’ve never had any desire to gamble. My parents love to gamble and I laugh at my dad for saying nearly every month for the past ten years, “We’re gonna have to stop going to those damn casinos! They just don’t give you any play anymore.”

“Okay, Dad. Whatever you say.”

“No, I really mean it this time!”

I have no clue where anything is on the Strip because I rarely go there. Patricia can verify that we agreed to meet at a Starbucks at the Fashion Show Mall, and I couldn’t find her because I never knew there was a Starbucks on the outside as well as the inside.

My husband and I are basically homebodies, so our favorite thing to do is have our friends and family over for some drinks and food, go swimming, and maybe do some karaoke. (Me, that is. I’ve yet to see my husband consume enough alcohol to get him singing.)

Patricia: Okay, so next time in Vegas we’re going dancing at the cheesy 80s club instead of getting lost trying to find each other among the countless Starbucks locations! And I’d love to join you for a little karaoke – that’s my idea of fun too!

10. Patricia: Thought it might be interesting to get a little personal here… Somehow you and I found each other online and developed a friendship that I now cherish. You’re way more organized and together than I am. For example, one of our first interactions was you gently informing me that I really could get in trouble for using Adele’s song on my book trailer without her permission. You were so nice about it yet made it clear that you were pretty certain it wasn’t worth the risk and that you genuinely cared about what could happen to me as a result. I’ll never forget that. Despite our differences, it’s uncanny to me how similar we are. Our long-term marriages, our kids’ ages, our work as teachers, and our obsession with spirituality and understanding human nature are just a few of the things I’m sure we could talk about endlessly. So, finally, here’s the question… do you think the universe or some higher power helps us to find the right people, circumstances, and resources that will push us to the next level in our lives? Have you had experiences like this before? I’ve had a few. Do any come to mind for you?

Shelly: I find I go back and forth between being a cynical thing who thinks everything in life is just a crap shoot, to believing that there is some intelligence and purpose to what we’re doing here. More times than not, I lean toward the belief that we are led to certain people for reasons, even if the person ends up being someone we wished we never laid eyes on. I don’t think we would grow and learn if every relationship was easy.

There have been a couple of people in my past who turned out to be extremely manipulative, hurtful, and not at all what they presented themselves to be. The only positive spin I can put on those experiences is that they made me more discerning, more cautious, and that’s never a bad thing.

It was very exciting when you and I connected. You are such an open and compassionate person, and though we have only met once, I honestly feel I could tell you anything and you would understand. I’m blessed to call you friend.

Thanks for coming up with such awesome questions. Sorry if I droned on too much!

Patricia: No way! You didn’t drone – you enthralled! I love chatting with you and am blessed to call you friend as well. Everything you said about me is exactly how I feel about you – compassionate, open, understanding, and lots more! Thank you for letting me share one of our talks with my readers. I hope everyone enjoyed it! (Shelly and I will now continue our conversations privately.